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10:19 < epistemographer> just imagine if we were all piling on one collaborative spreadsheet
10:19 < asolove> so can whoever controls thatcampbot consider the room-specific IRC channels?
10:19 < thatcampbot> ok
10:20 < jgsmith> a wiki page for the schedule?
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10:21 < thatcampbot> give me a sec to figure this out
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10:21 < dancohen> is it possible to simultaneously irc chat, twitter, blog, and podcast? I'm going to try.
--- Log opened Sat May 31 10:26:08 2008
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10:29 < asolove> thatcamp450 for rdf discussion
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10:30 < willynills> about to start the text mining session
10:31 < DruidSmith> RDF...  am curious if anyone is working with AJAX or JavaScript browsing and navigation of OWL ontologies
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10:34 < willynills> text analysis software: http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/ARTFL/philologic/
10:35 < willynills> philomine: http://philologic.uchicago.edu/philomine/
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10:37 < dancohen> in the text mining session in the lab (rm 462)
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10:39 < dancohen> sean takats is explaining CHNM's upcoming NEH-funded text-mining project
10:40 < epistemographer> Sean's not a "better" historian, he's a "different" kind of historian
10:40 < dchud> dancohen: hooray for funding :)
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10:41 < bess_> the techies are having an impromptu "keeping the wheels on" meeting -- sustainability from a technical point of view
10:42 < dancohen> good thing we're inside--just got a tornado watch alert from the fairfax messaging system, active until 10:30 tonight
10:42 < epistemographer> yowza
10:42 < doug_knox> RDF group talking about bibliographic data, citations, Zotero, data about museum/library objects
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10:43 < willynills> according sean: three aspects of text mining:  locating or finding documents,  automatically extracting data from documents (instead of manually reading), analysis of corpus
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10:45 < willynills> according to laura mandell: text mining can be used to identify terms of analysis not within your discipline
10:45 < matthewgaventa> wow. really doesn't LOOK like tornado weather (at least through my small window)
10:46 < jackflaps> it feels like it, though
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10:48 < davelester> it's great  to see everyone on IRC!
10:51 < elli> RDF: used to define relationships in restricted domains, perhaps more interesting. But movement in developing it is to make it applicable to broader and broader domains.
10:52 < bess_> davelester: I set up thatcampbot to record the channel. I'll give you the logs afterwards.
10:52 < davelester> thanks bess_ :)
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10:56 < asolove> can someone add thatcampbot to thatcamp450
10:56 < davelester> asolove++ great idea.  can you do that bess_?
10:57 < willynills> dan cohen: text mining tools need to useful for historians and may not be
10:58 < willynills> text mining tasks: summarization, classification, extractions
10:59 < bess_> asolove and davelester : I'll give it a shot
10:59 < bess_> asolove and davelester : I'll get to  it on the break, I'm in the middle of a good conversation
10:59 < davelester> np
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11:03 < asolove> ok thanks
11:06 < karindalziel> I will be posting the URL's we are talking about on del.icio.us with tag thatcamp
11:07 < jackflaps> I'm going to start doing that for the RDF session as well
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11:10 < willynills> text mining does more than speed up historical thought; it should give us a new level of comprehension
11:11 < clioweb> FYI  - I updated the schedule, so that should be current based on the last change we tried to implement downstairs
11:11 < clioweb> thanks to everyone for patience and input
11:11 < clioweb> schedule at http://thatcamp.org/schedule/
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11:12 < dancohen> clioweb: thanks--you did a great job with the schedule; hard to optimize something that complicated
11:12 < clioweb> I think it worked out well
11:13 < davelester> clioweb++
11:14 < clioweb> people should feel free to use other rooms and spaces for ad hoc meetings
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11:20 < BenBrumfield> Karin, is there any chance you could let us use your wiki?
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11:25 < karindalziel> ben - sure, pass is karin
11:25 < karindalziel> I'll clean up later
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11:29 < dancohen> http://www.dancohen.org/2006/08/08/mapping-what-americans-did-on-september-11/
11:30 < dancohen> my best effort on text mining + geolocation
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11:32 < BenBrumfield> Karin, can you paste the URL?
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11:35 < BenBrumfield> Got it
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11:35 < davelester> could people post their session notes on the blog?  that'd be great
11:35 < dancohen> so far, been able to blog, tweet, and irc chat all at once; adding in the podcasting might be hard...
11:36 < DruidSmith> There was a GREAT discussion of technology and sustainability at EPA's Science Forum last week - William McDonough, author of The Cradle to Cradle Revolution - http://www.amazon.com/Cradle-Remaking-Way-Make-Things/dp/0865475873/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212248155&sr=8-1
11:37 < davelester> dancohen: I'd love to see a live digital campus :)
11:37 < epistemographer> me too - do it, Dan :)
11:37 < karindalziel> actually, just set up a new wiki http://www.nirak.net/thatcamp/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage
11:37 < dancohen> davelester: tom and I were thinking of doing it
11:37 < BenBrumfield> Oh.  Sweet!
11:38 < dancohen> anyone mind if I look like I'm manning a McDonald's drive-thru?
11:38 < BenBrumfield> Well, I need a place to put the DorkShorts material now, so I'll get started with Karin's
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11:38 < davelester> there's already a whiteboard in the main room for dork shorts with a list of names
11:38 < karindalziel> feel free to do whatever you want there
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11:43 < willynills> Bill: text mining, given abundant texts, can ask questions about simultaneity and co-incidence.
11:43 < sgillies> epiphany!
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11:44 < DruidSmith> add geotagging to the mix and you also have geo-enabled text mining :)
11:45 < DruidSmith> and temporal coincidence / simultaneity?
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11:50 < asolove> what is the method for getting slides in to Dork Shorts?
11:51 < BenBrumfield> Karin, can you enable uploads on the wiki?  http://www.nirak.net/thatcamp/pmwiki.php?n=PmWiki.Uploads
11:52 < foundhistory> asolove ... thumbdrive?
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11:53 < asolove> hmm
11:53 < asolove> I can just download from email
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11:53 < foundhistory> if that works.  what kind of slides? ppt? keynote?
11:53 < BenBrumfield> Will we be able to hook up the projector to our own laptops?
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11:53 < asolove> it's actually just xul
11:54 < foundhistory> oh
11:54 < foundhistory> np
11:54 < foundhistory> ben... that's going to be tough
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11:54 < foundhistory> we're going to be pretty pressed for time
11:54 < BenBrumfield> Okay -- wiki it is
11:54 < foundhistory> but we could add another dork shorts session maybe
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11:55 < sgillies> session 1 made me think of "glass house"
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11:56 < foundhistory> Lunch is served!!!
11:56 < foundhistory> and Dork Shorts is starting!
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12:00 < sgillies> great adhoc session in 402. thanks, everybody
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12:13 < karindalziel> lunch is teh awesome. Great spreat, guys!!
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12:22 < sgillies> syndication architecture ++
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12:29 < asolove> lunch was excellent
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12:33 < epistemographer> omeka in action: http://exhibitions.nypl.org/eminent/
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12:37 < dancohen> enjoying the dork shorts
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12:39 < bess__> oooh, pretty! typographia
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12:41 < bess__> can anyone read the url? 
12:42 < jackflaps> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~dmrieder/typographia
12:42 < jeanne_kramer-sm> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~dmrieder/typographia
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12:58 < travis> Collaborative annotation: http://ecomma.cwrl.utexas.edu/0.2.0/
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13:02 < tjowens> #thatcamp401
13:02 < tjowens> doh
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13:06 < dancohen> In session on search, listening to Karin Dalziel show some interesting, wide-ranging examples.
13:07 < sgillies> i'd never seen etsy
13:07 < sgillies> nice
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13:08 < bess_> etsy++
13:10 < bess_> All of the stuff Karin's talking about is also available at http://www.nirak.net/2008/05/29/alternative-search-analyzing-document/
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13:13 < tjowens> learning about iggy pop's beat down
13:14 < sgillies> etsy beer can hat: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=10966874
13:14 < jackflaps> cleveland rocks
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13:16 < davelester> http://tinyurl.com/3cmfdy
13:17 < dancohen> davelester: thanks, dave.
13:17 < tjowens> that better not be atsly
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13:17 < bess_> Josh G. says "It's all about leveraging solipsism." Love it! 
13:17 < asolove> that's cruel
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13:33 < jeanne_kramer-sm> http://www.gilderlehrman.org/collection/battlelines/chapter3/chapter3_1a.html
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13:36 < erazlogo> crowdsource transcribing first, then present like this: http://dohistory.org/diary/exercises/lens/index.html
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13:41 < davelester> twitter is down again?  boo
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13:44 < asolove> the rain must have gotten it
13:46 < bess_> omg the rain! 
13:46 < jackflaps> twitter's a little slow
13:46 < jackflaps> if you poke at it with sticks a little it eventually loads
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14:06 < epistemographer> we got crazy geeky in the Search session
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14:12 < jeanne_kramer-sm> hoping that folks might post what was discussed in the Search session on the wiki...
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14:14 < nowviskie> lisa spiro takes kick-ass notes and will be sharing a summary of the "research methods" session on the blog.
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15:00 < epistemographer> quick call out: what's being talked about in the sessions people are in?
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15:01 < epistemographer> in "Museums" we're talking about the difference between how museums, libraries and archives approach digita vs. physical issues
15:03 < jackflaps> in Games we're talking about how to evaluate history-based video games based on their value as teaching tools
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15:50 < dancohen> https://www.zotero.org/download/dev/zotero-1.5a.sync1.xpi
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15:51 < shekhar> is patrick in here?
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16:08 < dancohen> sustainability has been moved to rm 450
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16:11 < BenBrumfield> Dorkshorts is nearly empty.  We'll probably wrap up early.
16:12 < davelester> aw
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16:28 < elli> open street maps project offers lots of potential for dh projects to create maps for their own purposes (historical, not street based, available)
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16:37 < bess___> elli: would you please post any notes you have on historical applications for open street maps? I was sorry to miss that session. 
16:38 < shekhar> bess___: we're not talking about historical maps in OSM... yet...
16:39 < shekhar> http://openstreetmap.org
16:39 < elli> bess_: I"ll do my best,
16:43 < elli> Now we are discussing how you might use the technology to walk places and map traces of roads, settlements, battlegrounds, and use the OSM software to incorporate this information
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16:45 < dancohen> discussing sustainability models for zotero
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16:46 < dancohen> anyone who is not in rm 450 who has ideas, drop them into IRC or Twitter
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16:46 < elli> Mapping: http://freemap.in site with links to open source mapping software
16:49 < elli> Mapping: Shekhar is showing a free map of Mumbai with historical layers overlaid from the freemap site.
17:00 < bess___> I've heard a bit about processing, but I had no idea how awesome it was. What a great session!
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17:05  * shekhar just showed http://mumbai.freemap.in and the testing version of a zotero openstreetmap plugin http://web.mit.edu/shekhar/zotero-maps.xpi
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19:30 < davelester> howdy all
19:34 < kerri> Hi Dave. Wish I was there. :-(
19:35 < davelester> aw, maybe next year? :D
19:36 < kerri> :-) Sounds like it has been great!
19:36 < kerri> Elli will surely debrief me when she returns.
19:37 < davelester> definitely
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19:51 < cg_> #thatcamp port 7000 at GMU.
19:51 < cg_> #thatcamp port 7000 at GMU
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21:45 < bess_> hello? 
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21:53 < karindalziel> hiya. I am just hanging out in here while working on a blog post. :)
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22:03 < karindalziel> soooo....is everyone else exhausted, or is it just me?
22:21 < bess_> karindalziel: also exhausted
22:21 < bess_> karindalziel: it's so great to meet you! We have a lot of the same research interests. 
22:22 < karindalziel> I am somehow wired too. Brain is racing. Which is good! 
22:22 < karindalziel> bess: Great to meet you too!
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22:23 < karindalziel> I feel like I have SO much to learn. 
22:23 < bess_> karindalziel: You might enjoy this paper: http://www.ualberta.ca/~sruecker/links/07_Ruecker_Pill_Identification.pdf
22:24 < bess_> It's an interface I worked on while at U of Alberta. 
22:24 < bess_> Stan Ruecker was the primary investigator, and if you don't know his work you might also enjoy it... http://www.ualberta.ca/~sruecker/
22:24 < karindalziel> cool- thanks! Something to read ont he plane ride home. :)
22:26 < karindalziel> Are you leading any discussions tomorrow?
22:26 < bess_> no, I don't think so
22:26 < bess_> I plan to be an "active participant" in the omeka one, though! 
22:27 < karindalziel> I can't decide betwen that and interface design. So many tough choices. 
22:27 < bess_> oh damn, did they schedule those across from each other? 
22:28  * bess_ runs off to check the schedule
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22:29 < bess_> Dammit, I want to attend every single one of the first sessions
22:30 < bess_> I mean the second session
22:30 < karindalziel> I know. :/ 
22:30 < bess_> I'm sure all the first sessions will be great, too, but mashup is the only one for me. :)
22:30 < karindalziel> Hopefully people will blog their sessions/
22:30 < bess_> but GIS, interface design, omeka, and bibliographic standards... I'm working on every one of those right now. :(
22:31 < karindalziel> I will go to management since it pertains most to my job. Unless I change my mind tomorrow morning.
22:31 < bess_> management? really? what kind of management? 
22:32 < karindalziel> Project management.. lemme go find link
22:32 < karindalziel> http://thatcamp.org/2008/05/2-ideas/
22:35 < karindalziel> geez, linking blog posts takes forever
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22:36 < karindalziel> hi ben
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22:41 < karindalziel> Done with THAT Camp day 1 recap
22:41 < karindalziel> http://www.nirak.net/2008/05/31/that-camp-day-1/
22:41 < karindalziel> and with that, off to read for a bit before bed. *yawn*
22:41 < sgillies> anybody else got a 5:11 flight from dulles and want to share a cab? lemme know
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22:43 < karindalziel> hope I didn't get anyone's name wrong. 
22:43 < sgillies> good recap
22:43 < karindalziel> wow, you're quick!
22:43 < karindalziel> ok, really going now. :)
22:44 < jeanne_ks> where is the recap?
22:45 < sgillies> http://www.nirak.net/2008/05/31/that-camp-day-1/
22:46 < jeanne_ks> thanks!
22:46 < sgillies> see you all in the morning
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22:53 < davelester> anyone in #thatcamp coming to the 'hacking omeka' session tomorrow?  I'm still deciding what I want to show
22:55 < bess_> davelester: I'll be there
22:55 < davelester> nice, I saw your tweet
22:56 < davelester> I'll definitely show off the OAI-PMH ingestion plugin
22:56 < bess_> davelester: NYPL and UVA are both very interested in how we can bring digital repository objects into omeka exhibits.
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22:56 < bess_> davelester: I'd also like some advice on how to get started writing omeka themes and plugins
22:57 < bess_> davelester: I think the more eyecandy themes we can provide for omeka the more people will oooh and ahhh. :)
22:57 < davelester> agreed!
22:58 < bess_> davelester: I'm really looking forward to it, but now I have to go to sleep so I can wake up on time. See you tomorrow!
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23:15 < jeanne_ks> Having trouble deciding 'Hacking Omeka' vs 'GIS/Maps' vs 'Interface Design'!
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07:11 < dchud> mornin'
07:11 < dchud> how do i see what everybody has twittered to @thatcamp all at once?
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07:44 < sgillies> morning
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09:14 < sgillies> asolove breaking free of xml!
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10:09 < asolove> text session has been interesting
10:10 < bess__> mashup session is fascinating. 
10:10 < asolove> what was covered?
10:10 < elli> what was covered in text?
10:10 < asolove> just using Yahoo/Google/Simile tools, or something additional?
10:11 < elli> mashups talked more about APIs, permanence and guidelines for APIs, and not so much about tools and implementations.
10:11 < asolove> uh huh
10:11 < asolove> we discussed some uses and issues with TEI, alternate storage formats 
10:11 < elli> (importance of spending the time to develop APIs and make available)
10:12 < asolove> and cool graphical interfaces for creating digital texts without knowing XML
10:12 < elli> what alternate storage formats
10:12 < asolove> very interesting
10:13 < bess__> asolove: we're talking about everything from google maps, to library of congress web services, to the importance of permanent urls and the implications for scholarship
10:14 < bess__> excellent conversation, I'm generating way more ideas than I'll possibly be able to implement
10:14 < asolove> sounds very interesting, sorry I had to present this round
10:15 < bess__> asolove: I get the feeling there will be lots of blog posts and writeups about this one
10:15 < elli> Raymond closed with http://programmableweb,com
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10:36 < jkramer_ks> fyi.. I posted a summary of the Text Mining session from yesterday: http://www.spellboundblog.com/2008/06/01/thatcamp-2008-text-mining-and-the-persian-carpet-effect/
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10:41 < asolove> INTERFACE DESIGN IN 401
10:41 < asolove> whoops
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10:43 < epistemographer> asolove: what's the discussion about in 401?
10:43 < asolove> funny
10:43 < asolove> I think we're looking at the JGAAP interface
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10:46 < nowviskie> can't believe I didn't realize you can put a URL to a KML file like this in the search blank for Google Maps!
10:46 < nowviskie> http://pleiades.stoa.org/places/archaic.kml
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10:47 < bess_> nowviskie: wow! I didn't know you could do that either!
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10:49 < nowviskie> yeah, bess -- guess what's going to be on Joe's to-do list when we get home! :)
10:49 < elli> Bibliograph session
10:50 < elli> I mean Bibliography
10:50 < elli> Zotero is a good tool for moving bibliographic information from one place to another
10:51 < elli> Bruce D'Arcus style language for bib (CSL)
10:51 < dchud> bibliograph(y or ic) :)
10:52 < nowviskie> re: mashing up georeferenced data -- this also works in Google Maps: http://pleiades.stoa.org/places/archaic.atom
10:52 < dancohen> if the biblio group would like me to come over to 450, let me know
10:52 < elli> we have Trevor here! 
10:53 < dancohen> ok, just checking
10:53 < erazlogo> for future thatcamp - find software for all urls opened in all sessions to be automatically saved into one big links file (coins-enabled?) so people could later follow links from sessions they missed
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10:55 < elli> http://zotero/content/tools/csleit.xul
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10:59 < bess_> nowviskie: maybe we could give David G. access to the google sat imagery that way... allow people to export a kml file of the layer he wants and open it in google maps / google earth
11:00 < dchud> tjowens: note the second author at http://rfc.net/rfc1165.html
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11:05 < dancohen> in the interface design session (rm 401) we're debating how much to ask users what a good UI is for a tool or collection
11:07 < jgsmith> re ui: unix tends to optimize for the most common use case, which is the experienced user -- explains why man pages tend to be cryptic for those unfamiliar with a particular command
11:08 < dancohen> jgsmith: right. good point.
11:10 < bess_> in the omeka hacking talk we're making unreasonable demands of the omeka dev team
11:10 < davelester___> :)
11:11 < dchud> jgsmith: does unix optimize for the most common use case, or the simplest, decomposed, filterable use case?
11:11 < asolove> it optimizes for the case of people who have write access to the man page in a project
11:11 < bess_> asolove++ # so true!
11:12 < jgsmith> well, most people using unix are experienced in unix -- the inexperience period is short compared to the rest of a person's career
11:12 < matthewgaventa> nice parallel: in bibliography, we're bordering on making unreasonable demands on the zotero team
11:12 < bess_> matthewgaventa: I'm going to make my unreasonable demands during the lunchtime zotero session
11:13 < jgsmith> doesn't mean an interface should be poorly designed -- but designed for the person familiar with the process or the concepts involved
11:13 < asolove> the design might encourage users to learn the underlying system
11:14 < jgsmith> asolove: -nod- -- easier to do in a GUI than a CLI
11:15 < dancohen> note to people making unreasonable demands of CHNMers: don't make us release the hounds on you.
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11:18 < epistemographer> unreasonable demands++
11:19 < dancohen> http://fluidproject.org/ and Yahoo UI provide open source nice-looking widgets for websites
11:19 < dancohen> that are tested across many browsers
11:20 < epistemographer> for reference: URL I demo-ed is http://labs.nypl.org/projects/maps/transparent.html
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11:40 < bess_> OAI/PMH plugin for omeka is fantastic. I've never cared deeply about OAI before, but I think I just started.
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11:42 < elli> http://bibliographicontology.com/
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11:50 < erazlogo> use for upcoming mapping plugin in zotero--map your research trips by where archives are located--could be done if there is an archival collection item type with a "place" field
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11:58 < dchud> http://simile.mit.edu/wiki/Zotz
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12:21 < davelester_> Lightning talks: first up, Mark Tebeau presenting the Euclid Corridor
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12:28 < matthewgaventa> next up in dork shorts: jeffrey talking about CSS file structure and organization
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12:37 < asolove> dancohen is about to start the zotero demo
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12:39 < matthewgaventa> dave lester is talking about scholarpress
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12:41 < asolove> zotero demo starting
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12:49 < elli> Goodbye and thank you to everyone at ThatCamp, enjoy the rest of the day. It's been great camping with you all.
12:49 < asolove> leaving early?
12:50 < sgillies> cheers, elli. great to meet you
12:50 < elli> yes. have to take a train. It's been great to meet you, too.
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12:53 < asolove> Twitter seems to be down
12:53 < asolove> just thing
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12:53 < asolove> Jobs at WWDC, Cohen announcing Zotero server
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13:20 < karindalziel> The librarians on twitter are asking me lots of questions about Zotero server. Much excitement. :)
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13:32 < dancohen__> good visualizations anyone? post them to IRC
13:33 < jgsmith> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Tufte - Tufte's done a lot of work on data visualization in general
13:34 < asolove_> Interesting discussion of event microformat standard
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13:35 < asolove_> and now the event discussion is moving into visualization issues and we ought to be talking to the people in 402
13:36 < dancohen__> hey people talking about time in rm 462: why not join us in rm 402?
13:37 < asolove_> winds changed and now we're into interdisciplinary discussion
13:39 < dchud> if only we could fold time and space.  and then visualize that.
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13:41 < dancohen__> come on down!
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13:42 < dchud> somehow i read that as "interplanetary"
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13:44 < asolove> whoops, misunderstood visualization
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13:48 < karindalziel> asolove: What did you think visualization meant?
13:49 < asolove> I thought we were talking about GIS type issues and graphing not quick display of information
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13:50 < karindalziel> asolove:ah, OK
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14:02 < bess__> we solved all our problems in the international issues session, so we've dispersed to other sessions
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21:27 < shekhar> any thatcampers want to grab a drink in DC?
21:28  * shekhar opens a beer for thatcampbot
22:02 < davelester> hey shekhar, where in DC are you at?  I'm in Arlington right now
22:14 < shekhar> davelester: i'm in columbia heights
22:14 < shekhar> a bit far, i imagine
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14:03 < davelester> sgillies and jgsmith: great to meet you both this weekend!
14:03 < davelester> hope you enjoyed #thatcamp
14:04 < sgillies> davelester: it rocked
14:04 < sgillies> i have a feeling that good things will ripple out of it
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--- Day changed Tue Jun 03 2008
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