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	<title>Comments on: Digital History Across the Curriculum</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/</link>
	<description>The Humanities and Technology Camp</description>
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		<title>By: Liste non exhaustive des thématiques abordées lors des THATCamp &#124; ThatCamp Paris 2010</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-3442</link>
		<dc:creator>Liste non exhaustive des thématiques abordées lors des THATCamp &#124; ThatCamp Paris 2010</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-3442</guid>
		<description>[...] http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/ Amanda French [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/" rel="nofollow">http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/</a> Amanda French [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#124; Center for Public History and Digital Humanities</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-671</link>
		<dc:creator>&#124; Center for Public History and Digital Humanities</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-671</guid>
		<description>[...] think this fits in to some degree with Jim Calder’s post and Amanda French’s post, among others (sadly, I have yet to read all the posts here, but I will get to it soon and maybe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] think this fits in to some degree with Jim Calder’s post and Amanda French’s post, among others (sadly, I have yet to read all the posts here, but I will get to it soon and maybe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: THATCamp &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>THATCamp &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 02:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-212</guid>
		<description>[...] think this fits in to some degree with Jim Calder&#8217;s post and Amanda French&#8217;s post, among others (sadly, I have yet to read all the posts here, but I will get to it soon and maybe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] think this fits in to some degree with Jim Calder&#8217;s post and Amanda French&#8217;s post, among others (sadly, I have yet to read all the posts here, but I will get to it soon and maybe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jamesdcalder</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>jamesdcalder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-191</guid>
		<description>This looks like its turning into a great conversation.  I posted a proposal yesterday (http://thatcamp.org/2009/06/from-history-student-to-webmaster/)dealing with people who find themselves in Digital Humanities professions that probably could have benefited from the type of training being proposed in this thread.  Following up on the suggestion of Jeffrey McClurken, I&#039;m thinking there may be a connection somewhere here.  At the very least, I imagine we would be interested in getting this group&#039;s advice on furthering our continued self education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks like its turning into a great conversation.  I posted a proposal yesterday (<a href="http://thatcamp.org/2009/06/from-history-student-to-webmaster/)dealing" rel="nofollow">http://thatcamp.org/2009/06/from-history-student-to-webmaster/)dealing</a> with people who find themselves in Digital Humanities professions that probably could have benefited from the type of training being proposed in this thread.  Following up on the suggestion of Jeffrey McClurken, I&#8217;m thinking there may be a connection somewhere here.  At the very least, I imagine we would be interested in getting this group&#8217;s advice on furthering our continued self education.</p>
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		<title>By: THATCamp &#187; Blog Archive</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>THATCamp &#187; Blog Archive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-158</guid>
		<description>[...] tools, the very notion of what digital humanities is and its place in the curriculum (something even THATCampers seem to be debating), when we need to do full-on DH evangelizing, and when we need to back off from our evangelizing in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tools, the very notion of what digital humanities is and its place in the curriculum (something even THATCampers seem to be debating), when we need to do full-on DH evangelizing, and when we need to back off from our evangelizing in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey McClurken</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey McClurken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-156</guid>
		<description>In my undergraduate classes, I&#039;ve struggled with the problem of teaching specific methods of digital productions or teaching broad approaches to using digital tools.  At times I&#039;ve had (made?) students learn HTML or 3-4 different software tools; other times I&#039;ve just had them post their thoughts on a pre-framed blog/website/wiki.  It depends on what larger goals I have for the assignment, class, and (sometimes) for their college career.  In the class Rob Nelson mentions above, I (and some very helpful colleagues) just threw many different tools at students early in the semester and had them pick the tools they needed as they were creating their projects.  The result was some pretty cool projects, but not (for most) a deep understanding of the underlying code.  The question of whether that matters is an important one here and one I&#039;d like to talk about more in a few weeks.

To circle back more directly to Amanda&#039;s query, I do think a _loose_ set of guidelines for aspiring graduate or undergraduate digital humanists is in order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my undergraduate classes, I&#8217;ve struggled with the problem of teaching specific methods of digital productions or teaching broad approaches to using digital tools.  At times I&#8217;ve had (made?) students learn HTML or 3-4 different software tools; other times I&#8217;ve just had them post their thoughts on a pre-framed blog/website/wiki.  It depends on what larger goals I have for the assignment, class, and (sometimes) for their college career.  In the class Rob Nelson mentions above, I (and some very helpful colleagues) just threw many different tools at students early in the semester and had them pick the tools they needed as they were creating their projects.  The result was some pretty cool projects, but not (for most) a deep understanding of the underlying code.  The question of whether that matters is an important one here and one I&#8217;d like to talk about more in a few weeks.</p>
<p>To circle back more directly to Amanda&#8217;s query, I do think a _loose_ set of guidelines for aspiring graduate or undergraduate digital humanists is in order.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Cebula</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Cebula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Good comments! I think the problem of generating faculty buy-in is as much a problem of attitude as age. I dropped by the home of my department chair the other day and he proudly showed me his weekend reading stack of books--CSS for Dummies, a couple more web design books, and a guide to Dreamweaver. He is 68 (and a model for us all).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments! I think the problem of generating faculty buy-in is as much a problem of attitude as age. I dropped by the home of my department chair the other day and he proudly showed me his weekend reading stack of books&#8211;CSS for Dummies, a couple more web design books, and a guide to Dreamweaver. He is 68 (and a model for us all).</p>
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		<title>By: Sterling Fluharty</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Sterling Fluharty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-115</guid>
		<description>rnelson2: Great comments and questions.  You are probably spot on about encouraging humanities students to take GIS courses offered by geography departments.  In computer science I think the situation is different.  In Albuquerque, the university CS professors refuse to teach web development courses.  Instead they focus on problem solving skills, computational and algorithmic thought, and deep immersion in programming languages.  So if a student wants to learn HTML, CSS, PHP, Javascript, etc., he or she will find those courses offered at the local community college.  The model in the digital humanities so far is that these kinds of web development skills are taught to individuals once they enter graduate programs.  This seems like some serious mismatch.  So I think we need to do a better job of distinguishing between expected skill sets for undergraduates in the digital humanities versus those for graduate students in the digital humanities.  And we should be asking ourselves whether we can match the level of skills we expect for digital humanities students with the kinds of courses that university professors in computer science and related departments are willing to teach.  In the situation is different on other university campuses, I would love to hear about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rnelson2: Great comments and questions.  You are probably spot on about encouraging humanities students to take GIS courses offered by geography departments.  In computer science I think the situation is different.  In Albuquerque, the university CS professors refuse to teach web development courses.  Instead they focus on problem solving skills, computational and algorithmic thought, and deep immersion in programming languages.  So if a student wants to learn HTML, CSS, PHP, Javascript, etc., he or she will find those courses offered at the local community college.  The model in the digital humanities so far is that these kinds of web development skills are taught to individuals once they enter graduate programs.  This seems like some serious mismatch.  So I think we need to do a better job of distinguishing between expected skill sets for undergraduates in the digital humanities versus those for graduate students in the digital humanities.  And we should be asking ourselves whether we can match the level of skills we expect for digital humanities students with the kinds of courses that university professors in computer science and related departments are willing to teach.  In the situation is different on other university campuses, I would love to hear about it.</p>
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		<title>By: rnelson2</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>rnelson2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-112</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that it&#039;s potentially useful when thinking about the integration of the digital humanities into curricula to distinguish between the digital humanities as a medium and the digital humanities as a method.  The issues involved with integrating the DH into courses are more easily tackled, it seems to me, when we&#039;re talking about the DH as a medium.  Including one or more pieces of digital scholarship as readings on a syllabus, asking students to use digital archives in their research, or asking them to publish their work on a blog or a wiki--all of that is comparatively easy.  As a product to be either consumed or used, it seems to me that the digital humanities is becoming widely if not universally incorporated into many humanities courses and curricula.  

Integrating the production rather than the consumption of digital humanities scholarship and tools is another matter altogether--and I think this is what you&#039;re talking about, Amanda.  I can&#039;t help thinking of Bill Turkel&#039;s comment recently in a JAH exchange (http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/95.2/interchange.html): &quot;I&#039;m occasionally dismayed to meet people who describe themselves as digital humanists but don&#039;t do any programming.&quot;  (That piece, by the way, has a great exchange about the method vs. medium vs. field question.)  The production of substantive digital humanities scholarship undeniably requires deep technical skills, whether those be in programming or GIS or 3D visualization or whatever.  I&#039;ve been thinking about and wanting to develop a digital history methods course to teach at the undergraduate level.  There are some great courses to emulate--Bill&#039;s (http://digitalhistory.wikispot.org/UWO_History_9808_2008-09) and Dan Cohen&#039;s (http://www.dancohen.org/clio-wired/) and Jeff McClurken&#039;s (http://digitalhistory.umwblogs.org/syllabus/).  While I dream about my students producing sophisticated digital projects, I don&#039;t see how I could ask them to do that.  To do that students would either either need to bring with them or acquire some technical expertise, and that&#039;s of course unrealistic.  Even in a methods course I think I&#039;d have to focus on the medium, teaching my students to be critical consumers and users of digital scholarship rather than producers of it.  (Which isn&#039;t different from more conventional undergraduate methods courses, it seems to me.  We teach our students to recognize, appreciate, and criticize Marxist scholarship, but we generally don&#039;t ask them to produce Marxist analyzes themselves.)  

Having said that, I&#039;m a little uncomfortable admitting this.  Few would debate that it&#039;s not enough to teach undergraduate students to be critical, appreciative readers.  They need to learn how to write thoughtfully and clearly.  And, it seems to me, the same is increasingly true of digital projects. It&#039;s not enough to teach students to be critical, appreciative consumers and users of digital scholarship.  They need to learn to be producers too, to be able to author a multimedia presentation or a visualization or to write code to tackle an historical question.  How do they get those skills?  Is this something that needs to be incorporated into humanities curricula?  Or is this something that should be tackled in other disciplines that students generally have to take courses in as part of most colleges&#039; and universities&#039; GER requirements--in computer science courses, in geography courses, etc.?  In other words, if we as humanists deem digital literacy (and, again, by that I&#039;d emphasize not just the ability to read but the capacity to write) an essential skill for our students to possess, are &quot;digital skills&quot; something that needs to be tackled within humanities curricula or more broadly within the liberal arts curricula, more likely than not by faculty outside of the humanities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that it&#8217;s potentially useful when thinking about the integration of the digital humanities into curricula to distinguish between the digital humanities as a medium and the digital humanities as a method.  The issues involved with integrating the DH into courses are more easily tackled, it seems to me, when we&#8217;re talking about the DH as a medium.  Including one or more pieces of digital scholarship as readings on a syllabus, asking students to use digital archives in their research, or asking them to publish their work on a blog or a wiki&#8211;all of that is comparatively easy.  As a product to be either consumed or used, it seems to me that the digital humanities is becoming widely if not universally incorporated into many humanities courses and curricula.  </p>
<p>Integrating the production rather than the consumption of digital humanities scholarship and tools is another matter altogether&#8211;and I think this is what you&#8217;re talking about, Amanda.  I can&#8217;t help thinking of Bill Turkel&#8217;s comment recently in a JAH exchange (<a href="http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/95.2/interchange.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/jah/95.2/interchange.html</a>): &#8220;I&#8217;m occasionally dismayed to meet people who describe themselves as digital humanists but don&#8217;t do any programming.&#8221;  (That piece, by the way, has a great exchange about the method vs. medium vs. field question.)  The production of substantive digital humanities scholarship undeniably requires deep technical skills, whether those be in programming or GIS or 3D visualization or whatever.  I&#8217;ve been thinking about and wanting to develop a digital history methods course to teach at the undergraduate level.  There are some great courses to emulate&#8211;Bill&#8217;s (<a href="http://digitalhistory.wikispot.org/UWO_History_9808_2008-09" rel="nofollow">http://digitalhistory.wikispot.org/UWO_History_9808_2008-09</a>) and Dan Cohen&#8217;s (<a href="http://www.dancohen.org/clio-wired/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dancohen.org/clio-wired/</a>) and Jeff McClurken&#8217;s (<a href="http://digitalhistory.umwblogs.org/syllabus/" rel="nofollow">http://digitalhistory.umwblogs.org/syllabus/</a>).  While I dream about my students producing sophisticated digital projects, I don&#8217;t see how I could ask them to do that.  To do that students would either either need to bring with them or acquire some technical expertise, and that&#8217;s of course unrealistic.  Even in a methods course I think I&#8217;d have to focus on the medium, teaching my students to be critical consumers and users of digital scholarship rather than producers of it.  (Which isn&#8217;t different from more conventional undergraduate methods courses, it seems to me.  We teach our students to recognize, appreciate, and criticize Marxist scholarship, but we generally don&#8217;t ask them to produce Marxist analyzes themselves.)  </p>
<p>Having said that, I&#8217;m a little uncomfortable admitting this.  Few would debate that it&#8217;s not enough to teach undergraduate students to be critical, appreciative readers.  They need to learn how to write thoughtfully and clearly.  And, it seems to me, the same is increasingly true of digital projects. It&#8217;s not enough to teach students to be critical, appreciative consumers and users of digital scholarship.  They need to learn to be producers too, to be able to author a multimedia presentation or a visualization or to write code to tackle an historical question.  How do they get those skills?  Is this something that needs to be incorporated into humanities curricula?  Or is this something that should be tackled in other disciplines that students generally have to take courses in as part of most colleges&#8217; and universities&#8217; GER requirements&#8211;in computer science courses, in geography courses, etc.?  In other words, if we as humanists deem digital literacy (and, again, by that I&#8217;d emphasize not just the ability to read but the capacity to write) an essential skill for our students to possess, are &#8220;digital skills&#8221; something that needs to be tackled within humanities curricula or more broadly within the liberal arts curricula, more likely than not by faculty outside of the humanities?</p>
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		<title>By: vika</title>
		<link>http://thatcamp.org/2009/digital-history-across-the-curriculum/comment-page-1/#comment-92</link>
		<dc:creator>vika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thatcamp.org/?p=55#comment-92</guid>
		<description>An exciting and puzzling topic. Larry&#039;s mention of his colleagues applies pretty broadly: we are in the midst of a generational transition that leaves us in a bind.  I&#039;m having a hard time untangling the catch-22 in my head, so please forgive the unordered and half-baked list:

- Many faculty members don&#039;t have a basic grasp of what internet and other computing technologies mean socially and cognitively, nor a good idea of what digital resources exist that are directly relevant to them.

- Convincing those faculty members to learn new things, new skills, new skillsets is non-trivially difficult.  They&#039;re already overloaded with work, and those who haven&#039;t already bought in don&#039;t tend to regard digital humanities as something crucial to their careers.

- Teaching students the basics of digital humanities is an excellent goal that should probably be accomplished in different ways in different disciplines.

- In any discipline, DH is a highly applied (as opposed to theoretical) field, at least insofar as its basics are concerned.

- Without faculty buy-in, which involves learning and understanding and excitement enough to re-work syllabi, teaching digital humanities seems to me impractical.

- And here again we get to reluctance to learn, no time to take on all this work, etc.  As a non-faculty staff member, I&#039;ve had a tremendously difficult time with attempts at organizing workshops for faculty; they just don&#039;t come no matter what we build, not in numbers.

There&#039;s got to be some curricular material that&#039;s applicable across the humanities and teachable in a very short time.  The challenge is, it needs to be taught in the context of specific courses, otherwise people won&#039;t show up.  I like the idea of modules, which are practiced in some institutions but not in others.  Something like:  before a semester begins, working with a faculty member to identify a couple of key concepts and/or skills that would benefit students in a particular course.  Then, sometime early on in the semester, doing one or two guest practicums in that course, taking up precious class time but in return equipping students with more tools for chipping away at their subject(s).

Right now, I think we&#039;re still in the phase of the very basics of internet research, search engine tricks, subject-specific sources, and technologies that are needed in order to use those resources.  Students can&#039;t learn everything about DH even if they try, so I&#039;m curious to talk with folks about this: developing a list of general DH topics that would be nice to teach, and strategies for picking relevant bits of that list and applying them to specific situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An exciting and puzzling topic. Larry&#8217;s mention of his colleagues applies pretty broadly: we are in the midst of a generational transition that leaves us in a bind.  I&#8217;m having a hard time untangling the catch-22 in my head, so please forgive the unordered and half-baked list:</p>
<p>- Many faculty members don&#8217;t have a basic grasp of what internet and other computing technologies mean socially and cognitively, nor a good idea of what digital resources exist that are directly relevant to them.</p>
<p>- Convincing those faculty members to learn new things, new skills, new skillsets is non-trivially difficult.  They&#8217;re already overloaded with work, and those who haven&#8217;t already bought in don&#8217;t tend to regard digital humanities as something crucial to their careers.</p>
<p>- Teaching students the basics of digital humanities is an excellent goal that should probably be accomplished in different ways in different disciplines.</p>
<p>- In any discipline, DH is a highly applied (as opposed to theoretical) field, at least insofar as its basics are concerned.</p>
<p>- Without faculty buy-in, which involves learning and understanding and excitement enough to re-work syllabi, teaching digital humanities seems to me impractical.</p>
<p>- And here again we get to reluctance to learn, no time to take on all this work, etc.  As a non-faculty staff member, I&#8217;ve had a tremendously difficult time with attempts at organizing workshops for faculty; they just don&#8217;t come no matter what we build, not in numbers.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s got to be some curricular material that&#8217;s applicable across the humanities and teachable in a very short time.  The challenge is, it needs to be taught in the context of specific courses, otherwise people won&#8217;t show up.  I like the idea of modules, which are practiced in some institutions but not in others.  Something like:  before a semester begins, working with a faculty member to identify a couple of key concepts and/or skills that would benefit students in a particular course.  Then, sometime early on in the semester, doing one or two guest practicums in that course, taking up precious class time but in return equipping students with more tools for chipping away at their subject(s).</p>
<p>Right now, I think we&#8217;re still in the phase of the very basics of internet research, search engine tricks, subject-specific sources, and technologies that are needed in order to use those resources.  Students can&#8217;t learn everything about DH even if they try, so I&#8217;m curious to talk with folks about this: developing a list of general DH topics that would be nice to teach, and strategies for picking relevant bits of that list and applying them to specific situations.</p>
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